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Author | Topic: Superman from the 30s to the 50s |
India
Ink Member |
posted May 17,
2002 06:16 PM
Back in the early seventies, my first encounter with the roots of Superman came in the pages of All in Color for a Dime (perhaps the most important book I've ever read in my life). But that book merely points out the public record of events--how Siegel & Shuster's "Superman" eventually got published by DC. I would have to wait for the Steranko History of Comics (vol. 1) to get the behind the scenes story. Google searching has not turned up any good sites for that Steranko book--none that have any quotes that I might copy onto this thread. So I'll have to do things the old fashioned way and transcribe passages from Steranko. As a teenage boy reading Steranko's chapter on the Cleveland boys and their creation, "The Super Star," I felt an immediate sense of identification--
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India
Ink Member |
posted May 17,
2002 06:39 PM
Steranko continues...
quote: (see the preliminary sketches shown on http://members.ttlc.net/~bobhughes/JOE_SHUSTER.htm http://members.ttlc.net/~bobhughes/JOE_SHUSTER.htm )
quote: (I'm almost tempted to put the above in bold since it serves my basic argument...)
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India
Ink Member |
posted May 17,
2002 06:49 PM
Steranko then states that "the source for the essence of Superman and his development was influenced by Philip Wylie's striking novel Gladiator," and then goes onto to compare specific passages, quoting extensively from Wylie's work--much too extensively for me to transcribe it all. Steranko then continues...
quote: (should I put that in bold? I shall...) "Siegel's mythical blending of the three themes was inspirational." IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
posted May 17,
2002 07:27 PM
Further on in this chapter, Steranko elaborates on the compelling character of Superman vis a vis his creators...
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India
Ink Member |
posted May 18,
2002 07:02 PM
Another important strip artist of the thirties was Hal Foster--here's his bio from http://www.zapcartoons.com/ :
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Aldous Member |
posted May 20,
2002 12:59 AM
India, Yes... For me, Superman's originality lies in his bringing together of various elements that (unquestionably) already existed in popular fiction.
quote: I agree. Superman very quickly evolved and became something far greater than the "sum" of his "elements".
quote: Where's that "edit" function we need? (grumble-grumble) As I said a while back on the Archives board, I was given All In Color For A Dime when I was a young kid. It's a very important book to me, too. Still a favourite of mine. How many people has that little book influenced?
quote: Question: Is that the book that is more like a magazine, large format but relatively thin? And is that the volume where Steranko includes actual excerpts from the Wylie novel? If so, I have that book. (It's buried somewhere in my closet.) I got it when I was about 17, and it's the reason I decided to vehemently track down Gladiator. (As it turned out, I couldn't find a copy in New Zealand, but I found a very old library copy years later in Australia.)
quote: Isn't that striking? There's one of the Superman elements right there, for the taking!
quote: It sure was! The whole "Superman as a god who dresses up and pretends to be an ordinary man" thing is so intriguing... IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
posted May 20,
2002 01:48 PM
The Steranko History of Comics is in tabloid size (the same relative size as the DC Limited Collector's Editions and Famous First Editions) and it looks deceptively thin. There were two volumes (first with chapters on strips, pulps, Superman, Batman, the DC supporting players, Capt. America, Human Torch and Subby with Timely supporting players; second with chapters on Capt. Marvel, the Fawcett line, Plastic Man, Blackhawk, Quality line, The Spirit) and the first volume looks thinner than the second. But in actuality they're both quite jammed-packed with material--it's just the over-sized pages make it look not so thick. But I think that we're talking about the same books here. Anyone who has read the Roy Thomas Young All-Stars will recognize that Aarn Munro & Hugo Danner were reimagined by Thomas as a composite in the person of Iron Munro (who post-Crisis was supposed to take the place of Earth 2 Superman in the retcon golden age). IP: Logged |
Aldous Member |
posted May 20,
2002 04:54 PM
quote: We are. I just went to the double closet where I keep all my comic books, and did a bit of digging. I found the Steranko book plus a few other little gems I haven't looked through for years. The Steranko History of Comics 1. 1970. Dedicated to Jack Kirby. A foreword by Federico Fellini. "The first in a projected series of six volumes."
quote: I take it the last four volumes were never produced...? Volume one is a great book. As with All In Color it gives the reader an injection of enthusiasm for the subject (not that we really need it). It has a reprint of the 1934 Doc Savage: Superman advertisement, showing Doc complete with curling forelock! Yes, the excerpts from Gladiator I remembered are there; they inspired in me a determination to track down the novel. And I wasn't disappointed. Steranko includes the Pa Kent-type speech from the Wylie novel. (I think I mentioned that speech earlier in the thread.) As Steranko says: "Gladiator... served as a blueprint for Siegel's character." Steranko talks about Superman's "self-imposed psychological barrier." (That is, dressing up as Kent and pretending he's normal.) I love that line. India, you've quoted quite a lot of the article, so I won't go on -- suffice it to say, this:
quote: gives us so much scope for enthusiastic discussion, it'll take us years to exhaust the topic (if that can be done at all). **** I also found another book, the same size as the Steranko one (about 10.5 x 14 inches), called the Official Metropolis Edition of the Amazing World of Superman. 1973. I think you have mentioned this book before, but I'm not sure. It opens with the Superman comic, "Superman in Superman Land." Next we have "How to draw Superman." Then a Superman Family portrait. Then a Krypton-Earth space chart. Then "How a Comic Magazine is Created" featuring Infantino, Schwartz, Bridwell, Milt Snapinn and other creators. Then the Superman comic, "The Origin of Superman." Then a giant colour fold-out map of Krypton. Then excerpts from the newspaper comics. Then a feature on Metropolis, Illinois and their enthusiasm for Superman (including a "Superman Day"). Then a feature on Superman villains. Then a feature about the secrets of Superman's fortress -- this is just a reprinted title sequence from a 70s comic book, which I think I've reviewed in the "Superman in the 70s" thread. Then an article on the Broadway musical. Then Superman's salute to N.A.S.A. Then important dates in Superman's life. Then "Superman's Mission for President Kennedy." Then "The Superboy Legend." Then a feature about the Super-costume. Then finally a Superman photo album with pictures from the TV show (George Reeves) and the movies. **** I also found these giant colouring books which are just black and white reprints of Superman and Batman comics blown up to a much larger size. IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
posted May 20,
2002 09:57 PM
Yes, I mentioned the Metropolis Edition over on the Superman in the 70s thread (probably somewhere around page 3). These books were important in my life. Each came like some great revelation, exposing secrets that seemed to belong to only a private mystery cult. My mind was fixated with every minute detail they disclosed. I don't know if a newer generation can appreciate this fact. With a click of a mouse, a few letters tapped on a keyboard, any kid can find out secrets that I worked for years to discover (literally worked since the money I saved as a paperboy went toward buying these volumes--often through the mail, at an early age I learned about postal money orders). And maybe for this newer generation, because it's so easy to access this information there's not as much fun in it so they don't even bother to look for it. The thing I half regret/half take pride in--is that I felt compelled to literally take these books apart. From the Metropolis Edition I removed the inset colour map of Krypton, and taped it up on my bedroom wall, along with my Beatles, Bee Gees, John Travolta, Olivia Newton John, Superman, Cheryl Tiegs, Lynda Carter, Batman, and Charlie's Angels posters. I can find lots of those other posters, but I haven't been able to find the map of Krypton. And with Steranko Histories I took out the staples, took off the wrap around covers. I never actually taped these up on the wall, I don't think, but I kept them separate from the inside pages of both volumes. And some of the books I ordered through the mail I continued to keep in their crush proof mailers, as a way of storing them, and as a result lots of these books are rather brown. The only coloring book that I still have from my childhood is a Batman coloring book. This one reprints in large size a lot of Infantino and Giella art--most of it seems to be from Batman's encounter with the Bouncer. When I was in my teens I cut out some of the figures and decoupaged them onto my wooden chest that doubled as a comic box--along with lots (read hundreds) of other pics that I cut out from comic books and magazines. IP: Logged |
Aldous Member |
posted May 21,
2002 12:57 AM
quote: What you say is true, I would think. I remember it being such hard work to track down and buy the comic books I wanted. At first I had to beg my father to buy a comic book I wanted; later I spent my pocket money (allowance) on them. But all the early stuff in my collection was hard-won. Does that give it more meaning? A new comic book, for me, was an occasion of great excitement. I was a solitary kid, and I grew up not really knowing anyone else who loved comic books, or Superman or Green Lantern or Spider-Man. So it was a pretty obscure interest at the time (in my country). The books like All In Color and Steranko's History were very important to me, in that, they proved other people cared about this stuff too! And, like you, I devoured the details.
quote: I would never, never, have cut anything out of a comic book, or undone a staple, or removed something from a book! How different we are on that score!
quote: My love of The Beatles was a few years away, and my only major claim on this era is I had a poster of Lee Majors on my wall. I surely did love Six Million Dollar Man when I was small. I was a bit too young to fully appreciate the charms of Cheryl or the Angels. I did like Wonder Woman, but a poster was out of the question. I think you may be a little older than me (I'm 34), but we're obviously of the same generation of fandom.
quote: The map of Krypton (from the centre pages) is a pretty crude affair, really. My copy is still stapled and intact, but folds out to about 21 x 28 inches in size. It has an "Old World Hemisphere" and a "New World Hemisphere". On the old side we have the Striped River; Erkol, oldest city on Krypton; Fungus Caverns; Boiling Sea; ruins of the ancient city of Xan; Mt. Mundru, highest peak on Krypton; Glass Forest; Jerat, the 'ghost city'; Vathlo Island; Antarctic City. On the new side we have Kandor, capital of Krypton till it was stolen by Braniac; Kryptonopolis, birthplace of Superman; Undersea Palace; Fort Rozz; Atomic Town; Jewel Mountains; Rainbow Canyon; Gold Volcano; Fire Falls; Scarlet Jungle; Meteor Valley; Argo City, Supergirl's birthplace; Bokos, independent island of thieves; Magnetic Mountain; Lost Valley of Juru (unexplored). If you feel the map is something you need in your collection, let me know. I can try to get it photocopied, and I could post a copy to you. IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
posted May 21,
2002 12:20 PM
Actually this same map was printed in the centrefold of Superman 239--a Giant--which I still have intact. I believe it's also printed in the pages of the Great Superman Book (encyclopedia). So I have a reasonable facsimile. And I still hold out hope that I might find the map from the Metropolis Edition packed away somewhere, perhaps among some old posters. A while back, on another forum, I asked about the projected six volumes of Steranko's History of Comics and I was provided with an answer--but I can't remember the explanation now. For some reason Steranko was prevented from getting the other volumes published, but they were in the works it seems. I dimly recall what those volumes were supposed to contain. I'd hazard a guess that vol. 3 would have been about other publishers of the golden age--Fiction House for instance--maybe some funny animals, maybe MLJ. Then I'm sure that there was a plan to do EC, which would probably be in vol. 4. I believe volumes 5 & 6 would have dealt with the comics revival--what we call the "Silver Age," although in the mid-seventies I'm not sure Jim Steranko had a clear idea just what that was--there would have been a lot of inside info about Marvel, probably a really great interview with Jack Kirby. Whether Steranko would have approached DC, or the other publishers of the sixties, with the same level of detail I rather doubt. Also back when this was being discussed on that other forum I was told that there was a plan in the works to re-issue the existing first two volumes, but I don't know what has come of this if anything. IP: Logged |
Aldous Member |
posted May 22,
2002 02:00 AM
quote: In The Steranko History of Comics 1, there is a great paragraph in the "Playboy Hero" section, on page 47. Steranko talks about Jerry Robinson, circa 1939-1940, during The Batman's formative period, and Robinson's sharing of an apartment with other comic book creators of the time -- the apartment was a hangout for comic men. "Frequently a half dozen artists and writers like Charles Biro, Bob Wood [India, who is this? The only Wood I know is Wally], Mort Meskin and Whit Ellsworth would congregate there to finish a few pages and discuss storytelling techniques or what the competition was doing [India, who were the "competition" in 1939?]. Steranko then goes on with this great paragraph:
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Aldous Member |
posted May 22,
2002 02:47 AM
In The Steranko History of Comics 1, there is a great paragraph in the "Playboy Hero" section, on page 47. Steranko talks about Jerry Robinson, circa 1939-1940, during The Batman's formative period, and Robinson's sharing of an apartment with other comic book creators of the time -- the apartment was a hangout for comic men. "Frequently a half dozen artists and writers like Charles Biro, Bob Wood [India, who is this? The only Wood I know is Wally], Mort Meskin and Whit Ellsworth would congregate there to finish a few pages and discuss storytelling techniques or what the competition was doing." [India, who were the "competition" in 1939?] Steranko then goes on with this great paragraph:
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India
Ink Member |
posted May 23,
2002 04:24 PM
I remember that passage and others like it. The idea of these guys eating off of tiles and staying up to all hours jamming together on a comic book story--out of necessity so they could meet the next mornings deadline--the whole thing is positively cinematic. The way they would go to see "Citizen Kane" over and over (and I've seen CK about fifty times myself, so I know there is no end to the number of times you can see it and still learn something new). The whole atmosphere of those times is perfectly evoked in Steranko--it's the great comic book movie that has never been made. Maybe they'll make a movie of Cavalier and Clay someday and some of all that can be expressed. IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
posted May 23,
2002 04:43 PM
Bob Wood worked on things like Daredevil (the original) and Crimebusters--both I think were published by Lev Gleason. Of course Charles Biro also worked on these series (so they might have had a loose partnership, like Robinson and Meskin). At a swap meet about a month ago, as I was looking through a box of sixties Action, a young women came running over to her boyfriend (who was standing next to me, looking through another box) and she was showing him this ragged copy of a golden age Daredevil comic--with the Little Wise Guys. She was wondering who this Charles Biro was, this guy who did such great facial characterizations, never having heard of him--nor had her boyfriend. Ever the introvert, I didn't interject, but I was stunned to think that anyone (anyone with a serious interest in comics) would not know who Charles Biro was! I think Robinson has folded a lot of years into just one--1939--since many of these comics and their publishers were yet to come into existence. I don't remember the names of the early publishers. I think some of these were companies that had started out reprinting strips. Others were evolutions of pulps--like Fawcett. For instance I don't know who the publishers of Wonder Man were, although Will Eisner was involved with them. I think that company collapsed once they were sued by DC. A lot of these companies were fly by night operations--hucksters who folded up their tents and then quietly started up somewhere else, paying artists less than minimum wage. IP: Logged |
Aldous Member |
posted May 24,
2002 04:53 PM
You lucky @#$% over there, having access to all that great old stuff! Didn't the Little Wise Guys eventually take over the book, becoming more popular than Daredevil? IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
posted May 25,
2002 06:21 PM
Yes, they did. See All in Color for a Dime for all the details--at least that's my main source for knowing about the Wise Guys and other kid gangs. I really miss the kid gangs. Now where did I put my copy of AiCfaD--I was reading it just last week... IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
posted June 02,
2002 05:38 PM
Since all the other related threads are bumped up, I'd thought I'd give this one a bump as well. IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
posted June 06,
2002 06:04 PM
Another important figure we have to discuss is M. C. Gaines who plays a many and varied part in the early history of Superman. I just wanted to cut and paste this bit that I found on a geocities homepage, as it mentions both Gaines and Lev Gleason. These two guys seem to have travelled around a lot pushing the comics medium in new directions...
quote: I'll have more to say on these fellows at a later date. => IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
posted June 07,
2002 12:18 AM
More info on Lev Gleason (and Daredevil and Charles Biro) can be found at this site: http://www.angelfire.com/mn/blaklion/ When I suggested that Charles Biro and Bob Wood had a loose partnership I was in error, in that they had a real official partnership indeed--more on the level of a Simon and Kirby or Andru and Esposito. Gleason began publishing Silver Streak Comics with Arthur Bernhardt in the early forties--under the name of Rhoda Publications. The notable feature in this comic was "The Claw" created by Jack Cole (an extreme Fu Manchu type villain). Many different heroes went up against the Claw. With the Daredevil finally taking on the villain. The Daredevil then became so popular that he pushed out the Claw. And when Biro was doing Daredevil Comics, the Little Wise Guys virtually edged the Daredevil out of his own book. Rhoda went through some name changes and Lev Gleason eventually bought out Bernhardt, becoming the sole publisher of what was then called Comic House, Inc. In the mid-forties the Gleason comics had his name right on the cover. On the covers of Daredevil, Boy Comics, & Crime Does Not Pay, Lev Gleason was listed as Publisher, while Charles Biro and Bob Wood were listed as Editors (apparently they co-edited everything). These comics with the names of Gleason, Biro, and Wood on the cover reflected a new philosophy towards comic book story telling. The books were intended to teach young readers important life lessons, and Biro invented a new word for comics, calling them "illustories." IP: Logged |
Aldous Member |
posted June 07,
2002 06:18 PM
quote: Yes. I'm looking forward to discussing him. As writer Ted White suggested, he was the "Johnny Appleseed" of comic books. IP: Logged |
Osgood
Peabody Member |
posted June 18,
2002 08:04 PM
Since this seems to be the most appropriate thread, I thought I would mention here that DC is releasing a Superman in the Fifties collection in September, comprised of the following stories: “Three Supermen From Krypton” from Superman #65 (Jul/Aug 1950) – 1st appearance of Kryptonian villains “Superman's Super-Magic Show” from Action #151 (Dec. 1950) – featuring the Prankster, Luthor, and Mr. Mxyztplk “Citadel of Doom” from Superman #79 (Nov/Dec 1952) – battle with Luthor “Superman's Big Brother” from Superman #80 (Jan/Feb 1953) - Mon-El prototype? “The Menace from the Stars” from World’s Finest #68 (Jan/Feb 1954) “The Girl Who Didn’t Believe In Superman” from Superman #96 (Mar 1955) – Superman tries to convince a blind girl of his existence. “The Super-Dog From Krypton” from Adventure #210 (Mar 1955) – 1st Krypto “The New Team of Superman and Robin” from World’s Finest #75 (Mar/Apr 1955) – Robin must sub for an injured Batman. “Superboy’s Last Day In Smallville” from Superman #97 (May 1955) “The Six Jimmy Olsens” from Jimmy Olsen #13 (June 1956) “Mrs. Superman” from Showcase #9 (Jul/Aug 1957) – quasi-imaginary story featuring what a Superman/Lois marriage might be like. “The Super-Duel In Space” from Action #242 (Jul 1958) – 1st appearance of Brainiac and Kandor. “Titano the Super-Ape” from Superman #127 (Feb 1959) “The Ugly Superman” from Lois Lane #8 (Apr 1959) – Lois dates a wrestler with the moniker of “Ugly Superman”!! "The Supergirl From Krypton" from Action #252 (May 1959) – 1st Supergirl “The Battle With Bizarro” from Action #254 (Jul 1959) – 1st time the adult Superman encounters Bizarro. “The Bride of Bizarro” from Action #255 (Aug 1959) – 2nd part of 2-part Bizarro story introducing Bizarro-Lois
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India
Ink Member |
posted June 18,
2002 08:56 PM
This should be an interesting surprise for me. The other TPBs (Batman in the 50, 60s, 70s & Superman in the 60s, 70s) has suffered for repeating so much material I'm too familiar with. While this looks like it will have some stories that are actually new to me. IP: Logged |
Continental Op Member |
posted June 19,
2002 03:56 PM
It seems significant that,although this book is supposed to represent a whole decade of Superman stories, almost a third of the selections are from the last two years... and only ONE of THOSE is from 1958. I also think it's "cheating" to include the WORLD'S FINEST story with Robin in a solo Superman collection, especially since it will be reprinted in a World's Finest Archive edition long before any of the Fifties' other Superman stories will be reprinted in Superman archives. And by the way, did anyone else realize just now that KRYPTO predates
the Martian Manhunter by several months, and the second Flash by more than
a YEAR? The debate is over... the first Silver Age super hero was a DOG!!
IP: Logged |
Osgood
Peabody Member |
posted June 19,
2002 07:54 PM
quote: Actually, this story has already appeared in WF archives. Volume 1 picked up where the team-up stories started in issue 71. The second volume went up to issue 101, so almost all of the 50s Superman/Batman team-ups have already been Archived. IP: Logged |
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